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From Elgg Documentation

(21:03:03) renato: this is better than keywords...people think they are the same as "blog keywords"
(21:03:08) renato: hi misja
(21:03:12) misja: hi all
(21:03:15) ewout: hi
(21:04:21) misja: how is everybody doing?
(21:04:37) renato: fine
(21:05:02) misja: were you already discussing a topic?
(21:05:30) ewout: yes, this : I made this page, http://elgg.org/trac/wiki/reports
(21:06:14) ewout: and tomorrow I will have triaged (assigned or accepted) all tickets in this list , http://elgg.org/trac/query?status=new&status=reopened&review_stage=unreviewed&review_stage=&order=priority
(21:06:37) ewout: I think we need to postpone 0.9.1 until just a bit later, what do you think?
(21:06:59) misja: ah, nice - I was looking today at doing custom queries at http://elgg.org/trac/report
(21:07:58) misja: hmm, perhaps you're right although I think the list of 'big' bugs is limited
(21:09:14) ewout: http://elgg.org/trac/wiki/TracReportshttp://elgg.org/trac/wiki/TracReports says reports will not be supported in the future and queries a much easier
(21:09:20) diego: yeap, but there is "too" much tickets!  
(21:09:55) ewout: so what do we really want to have fixed in 0.9.1?
(21:10:43) ewout: updated language files?
(21:11:18) misja: yes, as a start
(21:11:31) misja: btw, I've added a 0.9.2 milestone,
(21:11:42) misja: so we can shift tickets
(21:11:54) renato: there are some minor bugs
(21:12:00) diego: How we can add the plugins translations to launch pad? there is some confusion about it...
(21:12:07) renato: some related to commentwall
(21:12:37) misja: you'll need to start a seperate project on launchpad, if I'm right
(21:12:37) ewout: how about the explode ping plugin?
(21:12:58) misja: explode should move to the plugin repository
(21:13:04) diego: yeap
(21:13:13) renato: hum, but then there would exist tens of separate projects...thats's confusing
(21:13:15) diego: and maybe messages to the trunk? :D
(21:13:37) renato: commentwall also shoul go to plugins..it's buggy right now
(21:13:57) ewout: So please make a comment here: http://elgg.org/trac/ticket/208
(21:14:07) diego: or 'move' all the plugins to the plugins repository and with plugin.info mark what of them are in the core...
(21:14:50) renato: this would add a lot of confusion, I think
(21:14:52) misja: re: commentwall - it is nice to have around in a default install
(21:14:58) renato: too early for this release
(21:15:17) misja: you could do that once a plugin manager is in place
(21:15:31) diego: I agree. Just for take it in mind... 
(21:17:35) ewout: Are all of you also receiving emails for every change I make to any ticket? Or only to ones that your are in the cc field?
(21:18:07) ewout: I don't mind receiving the emails, but for you guys it may seem a lot of spam...
(21:18:24) diego: only in cc field 
(21:18:54) misja: yes, only if I'm in in cc or owner
(21:18:58) ewout: hmm, ok, maybe because I am making the changes.
(21:18:59) renato: me too
(21:19:06) ewout: perfect then
(21:23:14) misja: ewout, you haven't wired that reports page into the main trac wiki page yet, right?
(21:23:21) renato: to be fixed now, there are tickets #203, #217, #258 and #266 (if valid)
(21:23:24) ewout: I cannot do that
(21:23:35) misja: oh?
(21:23:46) ewout: I do not have access to trac.ini
(21:24:04) misja: you can't edit the frontpage?
(21:24:13) ewout: hmm, wait a minute
(21:24:30) ewout: I understand, yes, I will do that
(21:24:46) ewout: I was thinking about adding a tab
(21:25:05) misja: ah, I see
(21:25:12) renato: #253 and #251 would be nice, too, but need some work
(21:25:16) misja: hmm, that's an option
(21:26:49) diego: Could we try with the trac devel version?
(21:27:00) diego: or at least the beta one.
(21:27:04) ewout: what's better?
(21:27:42) diego: There is an admin interface and you can make some changes on trac.ini by a web form
(21:27:46) diego: install new plugins
(21:28:01) ewout: we are using a version where that is possible
(21:28:17) ewout: misja installed the admin plugin
(21:28:17) misja: yes, and that admin plugin is installed
(21:31:13) diego: I didn't know that
(21:31:30) misja: sure, have a look around the admin area
(21:33:05) renato: so, you read my suggestions to the plugins?
(21:33:12) diego: :-[ Sorry. I didn't notice it
(21:34:14) misja: although I am missing some options, ...
(21:34:17) ewout: renato: the idea is to make a new mod/plugin ?
(21:34:25) misja: hmm, will take a look
(21:35:06) renato: yes, in fact two of them
(21:35:30) renato: one is that used in elgg.org to display plugins etc
(21:35:57) renato: the other (which I didn't talk about) would be the plugin manager
(21:36:26) ewout: what would you do first?
(21:36:45) renato: the one in elgg.org
(21:36:55) ewout: Misja, what do you think?
(21:37:23) misja: I think elgg.org first
(21:37:40) misja: it will help people get an overview
(21:38:02) misja: the manager will need more
(21:38:22) ewout: so will we allow upload of zip, tgz plugins or only allow plugins via svn?
(21:39:02) misja: I think we should standardize of a packaging format
(21:39:18) misja: but ideally everything via the repository
(21:39:35) ewout: The argument for only svn is: self selecting of developers and a bigger chance that the plugin will be maitained
(21:39:37) misja: the new structure by Diego is perfect for this
(21:39:49) misja: true, I agree
(21:40:09) ewout: if you allow to upload blobs, the package will become out of date rapidly
(21:40:28) ewout: how does drupal do it?
(21:40:37) misja: hmm, I wouldn't allow blobs
(21:40:45) misja: just urls
(21:41:18) misja: either you host it yourself or you do svn
(21:41:41) ewout: yeah, if it is not hosted by  elgg.org they cannot blame us :)
(21:41:55) ewout: diego, what do you think?
(21:41:56) misja: exactly, we only reference it
(21:42:00) renato: ok, but then we give opportunity to register it in elgg.org filling a plugin.info-type form?
(21:42:19) misja: yes, that should be a prerequisite
(21:42:39) misja: or perhaps as an url too
(21:42:55) renato: ok
(21:43:03) misja: which I actually would like better
(21:46:34) renato: I include in the plugin the script to actually produce the tarballs? or you do it other way?
(21:47:31) misja: I think most economical would be to create daily snapshots and have the plugin pick them up?
(21:48:04) renato: yes, that's exactly what I suggested
(21:48:59) misja: I'll rework that packaging script
(21:49:25) diego: (Sorry, I was talking with some people here)
(21:50:25) renato: is there a checkout of the plugins repo in the server that the plugin can look to get the info?
(21:50:27) diego: About just svn or uploaded plugins I think that we must prefer svn but provide a way people could host their development on their own sites...
(21:51:16) misja: renato, yes there is
(21:51:18) diego: That's because I added two properties to plugin.info Distribution-URL and Source-URL
(21:51:48) diego: If you have your own hosted plugin the plugin.info only have Distribution-URL  
(21:51:51) diego: ...
(21:52:18) renato: source-URL would be svn address?
(21:52:29) diego: I like the idea the upload form ask the requerired fields for fill plugin.info
(21:52:41) diego: Could/must be
(21:53:16) diego: could be cvs or hg or git address too
(21:53:56) renato: that distribution-URL must point to an archive that has the same form of those we distribute
(21:53:57) diego: maybe we can add an third URL : Info-URL
(21:54:31) diego: that could be filled with the address asigned by the elgg.org plugins mod for this plugin.
(21:54:42) renato: that would be strange - you would have to know the info-URL in order to discover the info-URL? ;-)
(21:54:49) diego: @renato: yeap 
(21:55:43) renato: ah...but that's not really necessary, addresses could be something like elgg.org/mod/plugins/$package
(21:56:01) diego: And we could thing in something like the debian distribution format... 
(21:56:01) diego: <packagename>-<core versio>-<plugin release veresion | dev (for trunk)>.tar.gz
(21:56:41) diego: yeap something like that
(21:57:30) diego: maybe we can distribute some script that help people (and us) to generate a package with the right format. Just like deb-xxx utils do.
(21:57:32) renato: that name is fine for me. misja?
(21:57:49) diego: ewout?
(21:57:58) renato: yes, but then that would have to be cross-platform...
(21:58:18) diego: a php script
(21:58:32) renato: but it involves compressing/decompressing archives
(21:58:57) renato: .tar.gz is pretty popular in linux, but not in windows hosts
(21:59:40) renato: and I'm not certain zip/unzip can be found in many linux hosts
(22:00:21) misja: package name is fine, the compression method could be an issue
(22:00:24) ewout: so generate both, that is what most software packages do
(22:00:35) diego: yeap
(22:00:40) misja: yes, could do
(22:00:43) diego: and that could be done with php too
(22:00:55) ewout: with a checksum, if you want to be really professional
(22:01:02) renato: than check if function exists, and choose the right package
(22:01:07) misja: and pgp signed
(22:01:13) misja: ;)
(22:01:22) diego: http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.zip.php
(22:01:40) diego: and...
(22:02:07) diego: mm, I don't have any extra idea :-/
(22:02:38) diego: Some candidate for sumarize?
(22:04:58) renato: we still have to deal with older plugins not in svn
(22:05:21) renato: maybe put them in svn and ask people to adopt them?
(22:05:44) diego: I like that idea...
(22:06:13) renato: of course, contact the maintainer first
(22:08:25) ewout: so who will be responsible for this plugin? 
(22:08:47) diego: renato :D
(22:09:11) ewout: but it must be deployed on elgg.org, so how will Misja and Renato colaborate?
(22:09:13) renato: I can do it...I just have to check what part misja will do
(22:09:42) renato: he said he would write the script to produce the tarballs
(22:09:46) misja: renato, I think we have to bump your status to fulle developer ;)
(22:10:08) ewout: Misja, while you are working on this, how about a script to generate nightlies of elgg core?
(22:10:21) misja: yes, will do so
(22:10:43) renato: may be, but I'm not sure what I can commit or not
(22:12:03) renato: should I do everything through tickets and wait feedback, or I can commit simple corrections directly?
(22:12:19) diego: We talked about it some time ago...
(22:12:35) diego: Simple corrections are welcome... 
(22:12:59) diego: issues that involve others components must be discussed at least with another one for get some opinions
(22:13:27) renato: ok
(22:14:55) ewout: yeah, it turns out to be pretty easy to see what is trivial and what needs to be documented and discussed in Trac
(22:15:30) renato: one thing that would be nice it's to  keep CHANGELOG always updated
(22:15:55) renato: at each release there are lots of changes and we miss many things
(22:16:30) renato: I never find in which release feature x was added
(22:16:54) diego: yeap
(22:16:56) misja: one thing we should try is get a list of fixed tickets for a release
(22:17:07) diego: maybe we can help us with the elgg wiki
(22:17:11) misja: which should include both enhancements and patches
(22:17:13) diego: with reports
(22:18:00) ewout: svn log should be able to give all the information you need
(22:18:12) diego: Something with tha TicketQuery macro... 
(22:18:39) diego: (sorry I mean with the trac wiki)
(22:20:01) ewout: that macro is just a way of construction ticket queries: http://elgg.org/trac/wiki/TracQuery
(22:20:27) ewout: it does exactly what I have done here: http://elgg.org/trac/wiki/reports
(22:20:31) renato: anyone of those solutions should be fine, but they don't get incorporated in the changelog
(22:21:52) renato: about the plugins again, I will write the plugin and send to misja for some testing
(22:22:00) diego: but we can take it the information from there and just copy and paste in the Changelog
(22:22:17) misja: I agree, we should give it a try
(22:22:18) diego: Good
(22:22:43) misja: renato: fine, whatever you got I can put up for testing
(22:23:21) renato: ok, I send you something next week I thing...until then, we move the plugins to svn
(22:23:34) ewout: sure, I can try to generate some more reports which group by version and milestone
(22:23:52) misja: would  be great
(22:24:37) diego: yeap
(22:25:00) renato: there is anything else?
(22:25:11) diego: We need to add plugin.info to the core plugins too
(22:25:11) ewout: ok, I will be triaging bugs and solving my bugs next week
(22:25:22) renato: I think we didn't settle about 0.9.1 yet
(22:25:23) misja: for now cleaning up for 0.9.1
(22:25:56) misja: we could target first week of Feb.?
(22:26:09) ewout: carnaval in Brazil :)
(22:26:23) misja: ah!
(22:26:35) renato: hahaha...the year begins only in the second week of Feb :p
(22:26:39) ewout: Let's call it the Carnaval release
(22:26:57) misja: why not, sounds good to me :)
(22:27:29) diego: Do you mean the second week of march?
(22:27:37) diego: I agree with the name too
(22:27:50) misja: that will be second week of Feb.?
(22:28:11) ewout: 0.9.1, right, 2 week of feb.?
(22:28:29) renato: ok
(22:28:32) ewout: or first week, for me is fine too
(22:28:34) misja: sound good to me
(22:28:42) diego: (I was kidding with the feb and march ... Brazil is friezed on feb)
(22:28:47) misja: plus we really should be moving with the teams ;)
(22:28:47) renato: if it happens everything get done earlier, we can anticipate :D
(22:28:48) diego: yeap
(22:29:17) ewout: yeah, I need to get some deliverables out, wiki pages and stuff
(22:29:24) ewout: hope I can do that soon
(22:29:51) ewout: ok, see you guys next week?
(22:30:05) misja: sure, let's keep in touch
(22:30:11) ewout: bye
(22:30:16) renato: yeah
(22:30:21) ewout is weggegaan.
(22:30:29) misja: ok, bye all
(22:30:36) renato: bye misja