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From Elgg Documentation

(21:29:23) #elggdev: modus (+nt ) door irc.curverider.co.uk
(21:59:11) ewout [~ewout@c934148d.virtua.com.br] is de ruimte binnengekomen.
(22:00:17) misja: hoi Ewout
(22:04:20) tim [~4801ce03@207.250.49.24] is de ruimte binnengekomen.
(22:06:13) tim2 [~4801cedd@207.250.49.24] is de ruimte binnengekomen.
(22:06:19) tim2: hi guys
(22:06:31) misja: hi tim
(22:06:51) misja: how are you?
(22:07:19) tim2: good - finally found a proxy that would bypass my firewall (ircatwork.com)
(22:07:25) tim2: you?
(22:07:45) misja: doing ok
(22:07:56) misja: the proxy is good to know
(22:08:39) guest2352 [~never@static-200-105-219-106.acelerate.net] is de ruimte binnengekomen.
(22:09:00) guest2352 heet nu rho
(22:09:03) rho: hi?
(22:09:07) misja: hi rho
(22:09:21) tim is weggegaan (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)).
(22:09:53) misja: I hope diego will be able to make it
(22:10:40) ewout: hoi
(22:11:02) misja: hi
(22:11:12) tim2: i feel guilty that I'm the only native english speaker (I think) and we have to use English...
(22:11:25) ewout: either that or esperanto
(22:11:40) misja: :)
(22:12:04) misja: shall we just start?
(22:12:05) ewout: how bout we all learn medieval latin?
(22:12:13) tim2: I'm good in French if we ever want to change things up (and latin, but not much call for that...))
(22:12:31) ewout: yup, let's start
(22:12:48) misja: two topics,
(22:12:57) misja: security stuff and 0.9
(22:13:09) misja: other topics?
(22:13:33) tim2: visual installer status? plugin info file format? release documentation?
(22:13:50) misja: yes, all valid
(22:14:19) misja: security first?
(22:14:45) tim2: yes - seems the most critical
(22:15:07) misja: it was a nice catch rho, serious bug
(22:15:20) ewout: yes, thanks a lot!
(22:15:45) tim2: are ben/dave cathing this for explode as well? I suspect the problems carry over...
(22:16:18) misja: all services will get updated,
(22:16:32) misja: I think explode uses slightly different code
(22:16:58) misja: but still there is the issue you pointed out, ewout
(22:17:13) misja: and for which rho had a couple of ideas
(22:17:53) misja: do we absolutely want this fixed in 0.9?
(22:18:41) ewout: it certainly is not as important as rolando's discovery
(22:19:01) misja: true
(22:19:33) tim2: given that this one has existed for a long time, and no reported issues, it maybe could wait???
(22:19:46) ewout: But it is bothering me a lot
(22:19:52) misja: yes, that was my thinking too
(22:19:54) ewout: we have had some angry users
(22:20:05) tim2: it has been abused then?
(22:20:12) ewout: fortunately none of them tecnically adept
(22:20:16) ewout: no 
(22:20:18) tim2: :-)
(22:20:34) misja: rho, what's your opinion?
(22:20:41) ewout: but I'm fine with a 1.0 / month timescale
(22:21:03) ewout: the thing is the crsf stuff is most urgent
(22:21:13) tim2: are we that close to a 1.0?
(22:21:14) ewout: because it can be done on third party sites
(22:21:40) misja: 1.0 is scheduled for April
(22:21:55) ewout: I hesitate to say it should be done now, because in the next two weeks I cannot contribute
(22:22:11) misja: I think it will be hard for everybody
(22:22:22) ewout: but in my opinion, the GET -> POST, hashes on <form>s should be done in a timescale of weeks
(22:22:25) ewout: not months
(22:22:46) misja: ok, so that could be in a 0.9.1
(22:22:52) ewout: yep
(22:23:02) tim2: i agree
(22:23:12) misja: ok, let's do that then - if rho agrees :)
(22:23:29) rho: what have i to agree?
(22:23:31) ewout: misja, do you know how our users are coping with the patches?
(22:23:54) misja: haven't heard about any problems
(22:24:14) misja: rho - about moving the csrf fixes to a later release
(22:24:36) tim2: at some point we may need to decide how many version back we patch I suspect (do we need to fix .7 anymore? do we patch .8 after .9 is released???
(22:25:01) misja: my thinking was once 0.9 is out we drop 0.8
(22:25:06) misja: sorry, 0.7
(22:25:33) misja: but that's just me being friendly to users
(22:25:42) rho: 1.0 will be realeased in five month?
(22:26:00) misja: that's the date I have set it to
(22:26:06) misja: it's arbitrary
(22:26:18) misja: trac needed a date :)
(22:26:34) rho: why we don't take our time to make a wonderful 1.0 release?
(22:26:46) rho: we could do incremental releases, 0.9.1
(22:26:56) rho: 0.9.2... 0.9.9... 0.9.21.. ;)
(22:27:13) misja: I think that would be ok,
(22:27:30) misja: but what timeline would you have in mind for 1.0?
(22:27:55) tim2: once .9 is out the door it would be good to do a feature map before we set a date, wouldn't it?
(22:28:16) misja: o yes, we'll need to build up a roadmap again
(22:28:56) misja: but then again, right now it's not the most urgent of things,
(22:29:00) misja: 0.9 first
(22:29:22) misja: how's everybody doing on that?
(22:29:47) ewout: on what?
(22:30:16) misja: getting 0.9 ready
(22:30:35) ewout: well, yes, of course
(22:32:17) misja: rho, how are the installer and page editor coming along?
(22:32:39) tim2: I haven't got any tickets open, but I am really only going to be much help on the edges (small tweaks, documentation, plugins)
(22:33:05) misja: that's alright, you've already made a good start with the install documentation
(22:33:05) tim2: I will put time into documenting the new installer once it is commited
(22:33:22) misja: yes, it's all stuff we need
(22:34:00) misja: ewout, any issues with the iinitial user setup?
(22:34:05) ewout: I will do my two 0.9 tickets 
(22:34:17) ewout: well, it's a plugin
(22:34:34) ewout: so it is not really tied to the 0.9 release
(22:34:46) ewout: for now, it is more a proof of concept
(22:34:54) misja: but would be nice to package it?
(22:34:58) ewout: it works, though
(22:35:07) ewout: What do you mean package?
(22:35:17) misja: package into the 0.9 release
(22:35:23) ewout: distribute as core?
(22:35:28) misja: yes
(22:35:31) ewout: maybe wait a while
(22:35:53) misja: first user experience is of importance, I think
(22:36:09) rho: misja, these days i was busy on other projects, but surely i'll send updates in the next 36 hours :)
(22:36:12) ewout: It would be nice to have reports by other people
(22:36:38) ewout: thing is, next two weeks I am busy trying to keep my joob
(22:36:39) rho: we will release 0.9rc1 first, right?
(22:36:44) tim2: I can test- I may update the batch create to let us batch create without email out (as you suggested)
(22:36:51) misja: yes, I had a look and it seems to work fine
(22:37:08) misja: rho, yes, we'll do an rc1 first
(22:37:21) ewout: tim, I still need to look at your plugin
(22:37:41) ewout: but yes, let's try to cooperate
(22:37:53) ewout: exchange some ideas
(22:38:06) tim2: it parse csv, but still hides the password and emails it only to users. I will add an option to truly batch create (without emailing the user/pass, so that we can test your plugin)
(22:38:28) misja: sounds good
(22:38:50) tim2: doesn't the news account get an inital blog entry already?
(22:38:59) misja: yes
(22:39:16) misja: it's included in the SQL
(22:39:20) ewout: yes, it is hard coded in the table creation, right?
(22:39:24) tim2: ah.
(22:40:06) misja: which probably also is something which could go in a new user plugin later?
(22:40:42) ewout: maybe it should go into the installer?
(22:41:05) misja: ah yes, maybe that's a better idea
(22:41:46) tim2: makes sense
(22:42:03) misja: ok, best to leave it for 1.0, ok?
(22:42:17) ewout: I think so
(22:42:21) tim2: sure
(22:42:25) misja: pk
(22:42:27) misja: ok
(22:43:05) misja: tim, your documentation, any specific feedback you need?
(22:43:14) misja: apart from the installer
(22:43:23) tim2: has anyone been able to glance over the batch_admin code to see if it looks ok (remember - I' a teacher by trade, my coding is self-taught...)
(22:43:47) misja: glanced over it, I'll need to take a closer look
(22:43:55) misja: will do so tomorrow
(22:43:59) tim2: format ? should it go in the wiki or satis document for each release?
(22:44:06) tim2: thansk
(22:44:37) misja: it will be nice to have something included
(22:44:45) tim2: is the installer in svn now or still patches?
(22:44:54) misja: in patches
(22:45:05) ewout: yeah, let's put it in
(22:45:06) ewout: svn
(22:45:20) tim2: great - I hate patch /.diff files
(22:45:25) misja: :)
(22:45:59) tim2: 1 more issue - themes status?
(22:46:32) misja: problematic, I haven't heard back yet from the 2 people working on it
(22:46:54) misja: I'll see what I can do ...
(22:47:08) tim2: does the current theme being fixed witdth bother anyone else? I prefer letting it size to screen
(22:47:41) misja: personaly I like them fluid and have them scale
(22:47:43) ewout: fluid, much better, but more difficult to implement
(22:47:58) tim2: lie this: http://commun-it.org/elggtest/devel/
(22:47:59) ewout: but whoever makes it decides...
(22:48:29) tim2: i just pulled out to widht statements form the current theme csv
(22:48:40) tim2: I mean css
(22:48:47) misja: does seem to work ok?
(22:49:21) tim2: yes, but I haven't really any data (plus I've moved the toolbar below the header)
(22:49:49) tim2: I will do more testing and them port me current commun-it them into it
(22:50:03) misja: yes, do so
(22:50:13) misja: would liek to see the result
(22:50:23) tim2: sorry for the poor typing - new laptop (asus eeePC  - awesome!)
(22:50:34) rho: i'll forward you a proposal theme that sent me Jose Maria
(22:50:46) tim2: great
(22:50:47) misja: ok, great
(22:51:07) misja: Tim - nice laptop, btw
(22:51:40) misja: ok, two remaining issues, I think
(22:51:57) misja: we need to all have a look at the current tickets
(22:52:09) misja: and triage them/clean them up
(22:52:22) misja: and decide what will go in 0.9
(22:53:33) misja: other thing is the plugin info file format, although not very pressing
(22:54:21) tim2: i agree - drop the plugin file until e decide what functionality it will handle via admin interface
(22:54:38) misja: yes and no,
(22:55:01) misja: the format is e.g. handy for automated packaging
(22:55:17) misja: and publishing plugin info to the site
(22:55:37) rho: the plugin info file could be not mandantory until next release
(22:56:04) misja: yes, that's true, so let's leave it for now?
(22:56:32) misja: or, before we close it - which format would you prefer, the ini or debian style format?
(22:56:51) tim2: i would agree - we may have to chase down a few people toask them to update their plugins
(22:56:53) rho: ini format could handle multiline values?
(22:57:20) misja: everything will need to be in quotes
(22:58:00) tim2: wouldn't a version.php file, with defined variables, be easiest to parse out and use? like the elgg version.php?
(22:58:05) misja: multiple lines, but also to protect > signs etc.
(22:58:42) misja: yes, true, but other formats could get handled by other tools/languages too
(22:58:59) misja: that is, the ini and debian format
(22:59:21) misja: rho - cool design you forwarded
(22:59:30) rho: or... why not a plugin_info() function? that return an array
(23:00:03) misja: sure, that should be there
(23:00:56) misja: ok, shall we let it rest for now?
(23:01:07) misja: we'll pick it up later
(23:01:22) ewout: can I checkin http://elgg.org/trac/ticket/178 : "ajax" checking for correct username while registring ?
(23:02:04) misja: oh yes, do so, that's a nice enhancement
(23:02:10) misja: (I tried it)
(23:02:14) ewout: ok
(23:03:29) misja: btw, add everyone to the ticket cc list if you're adding comments etc.
(23:03:51) misja: last thing, ticket cleanup
(23:05:34) misja: shall we all try and weed them out by commenting on the tickets?
(23:06:33) ewout: I think http://elgg.org/trac/ticket/167 should be 0.9
(23:07:12) misja: yes
(23:07:19) misja: do you have a patch?
(23:08:19) tim2: my apologies, but I've got to run - kids waiting at home for dinner! Can some email the remainng transcript when youwrap up?
(23:08:27) ewout: well, yes
(23:08:31) ewout: I think so
(23:08:34) misja: we'll put it on the wiki
(23:08:41) tim2: thanks - bye
(23:08:43) misja: shall I reassign it?
(23:08:47) misja: bye
(23:08:52) ewout: yes, ok
(23:09:07) ewout: http://elgg.org/trac/ticket/158 also in 0.9, rho's installer?
(23:09:46) ewout: http://elgg.org/trac/ticket/98 was solved by Sven, if I remember?
(23:10:21) misja: I am not experiencing any issues
(23:10:38) misja: close as worksforme?
(23:10:59) ewout: fine with me
(23:13:12) misja: http://elgg.org/mod/forum/forum_view_thread.php?post=326
(23:13:45) tim2 is weggegaan (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)).
(23:13:57) ewout: I think will close http://elgg.org/trac/ticket/143
(23:15:20) ewout: ok, closed
(23:15:25) misja: ok
(23:17:00) ewout: misja, I see, Sven did not actually make a checkin?
(23:17:17) misja: no, but I closed it anyway,
(23:17:35) misja: if it's a real problem it will get reported again
(23:17:46) ewout: hmm, this is one dificult bug to test on a virgin install
(23:18:06) ewout: and one in the western hemisphere :)
(23:18:25) misja: yes :)
(23:18:52) ewout: well, never mind
(23:19:39) ewout: ok, I will do my tickets, maybe this weekend
(23:20:10) misja: yes ok
(23:20:34) misja: I will be closing off here
(23:21:26) misja: any remaining issues before I leave?
(23:22:47) ewout: good night!
(23:22:59) ewout: I need to go too
(23:23:06) ewout is weggegaan.
(23:23:08) misja: ok, catch you all later
(23:23:09) rho: ok, next meeting?
(23:23:29) misja: on Monday?
(23:23:46) misja: preparing the rc1?
(23:23:51) rho: yes
(23:23:55) rho: one day before release?
(23:24:39) misja: it will be on the day itself, I think?
(23:25:15) misja: yes, the 3rd
(23:25:38) misja: let's try and meet earlier, so we can release late
(23:26:51) rho: ok
(23:27:10) misja: I'll send around an email
(23:27:15) rho: about the theme that i forwarded you
(23:27:23) rho: what do you think?
(23:27:29) misja: I like it
(23:27:40) rho: i see one problem
(23:27:51) rho: split up the sidebar in two parts
(23:27:58) rho: "my stuff" and "tools"
(23:28:31) rho: that should be changed on toolbar mod, to allow both sections
(23:28:31) misja: oh yes, I see, that was copied from the dummies
(23:28:49) misja: that was an idea we had
(23:28:57) misja: does make things more clear
(23:29:19) misja: but we could leave it as one for now
(23:29:43) diego [~diego@200.71.48.65] is de ruimte binnengekomen.
(23:29:50) misja: because the tools section will need to be related to plugin functionality
(23:29:51) rho: ok
(23:30:11) misja: they'll need a way to register as 'tools'
(23:30:15) misja: hi diego
(23:30:15) diego: Hello!
(23:30:22) rho: other thing, maybe by default use email as login id?
(23:30:24) rho: hi diego
(23:30:32) diego: Sorry I was on "hacking mode" and forget the meeting
(23:30:37) misja: no worries
(23:30:39) diego: But now I'm ready
(23:30:40) diego: :D
(23:30:48) misja: and we're done ;)
(23:31:12) misja: but email as login, something to think about for 1.0
(23:31:17) diego: What are you talking about?
(23:31:46) misja: about a theme by Jose
(23:32:09) diego: For email as login I have already do that with an auth module
(23:32:17) diego: :O
(23:32:28) misja: rho, would be nice if we he can create a couple of colour schemes for that theme
(23:33:05) diego: It looks nice
(23:33:11) diego: I like the idea from misja.
(23:33:26) rho: i'll tell Jose
(23:34:15) rho: but, toolbar on  the side or top?
(23:34:17) diego: I suppose that you already talk about it... but what would be the criteria to split entries between "My stuff" and "My tools"?
(23:34:36) diego: I like where it is right now
(23:34:49) misja: on top, you mean
(23:35:25) misja: I like them more on the side
(23:37:16) misja: and you, rho?
(23:37:53) diego: I like on the side
(23:38:37) rho: maybe outside of the white frame
(23:39:19) rho: as now, it's look like the toolbar is related to the content
(23:39:57) misja: I disagree
(23:40:26) diego: I like on the side, where it is right now
(23:40:37) diego: On the design that rho send us
(23:41:04) misja: I think it's ok to have it there since all content is there
(23:41:21) misja: I don't find it confusing
(23:42:15) rho: may be a line, see here http://elgg.org/_download/themes/simpletheme/simple1.htm
(23:42:31) rho: it's a visual separation between the "content" (sidebar, body) and the toolbar
(23:43:55) misja: it's something to try out, but not strictly necessary imo
(23:47:04) misja: rho, you'll be talking to Jose about waht we discussed?
(23:47:34) misja: (it's getting late here, I need to close off)
(23:47:50) misja: btw, diego, everything ok with you?
(23:49:30) diego: yeap
(23:49:42) diego: A little busy. But everything is ok
(23:49:55) misja: ok, good, same here :)
(23:50:12) diego: I'm running with the entrepreneurship project :-|
(23:50:24) misja: which will be busy ...
(23:50:29) diego: a little
(23:51:05) diego: I see that you was talking about the default theme? Did you discuss another topics?
(23:51:27) misja: I'll send you th log, plus post it n th wiki
(23:52:38) misja: should be in your inbox
(23:52:46) misja: ok, Iĺl be leaving now
(23:53:05) diego: ok
(23:53:07) diego: thanks a lot
(23:53:08) misja: we'll try and meet on Monday
(23:53:23) misja: before we release a rc1
(23:53:28) diego: Could be on tuesday?
(23:53:47) diego: I have a meeting that day.
(23:53:52) misja: hmm, we've set the release date on Monday ...
(23:53:56) diego: ok
(23:54:07) diego: If the meeting is early on the morning
(23:54:24) misja: maybe can catch you aealy in the morning?
(23:54:29) diego: I can attend if it is in (my afternoon, like today) I couldn't 
(23:54:43) diego: yeap
(23:54:56) misja: ok, let's try and do that
(23:55:03) misja: bye for now